Multigenerational planning and powerful next-gen marketing, with Karen DeRose

Multigenerational planning and powerful next-gen marketing, with Karen DeRose

Hello, and welcome to the PracticeLab podcast, where we talk to top advisors about what makes them successful, so that you can apply those lessons in your own business. 

I'm your host, Melissa Phipps. And today we are talking to Karen DeRose of DeRose Financial Planning Group, a comprehensive Chicago-based planning firm with the philosophy, “Life happens … plan for it!” With passion for making connections and a strong marketing and sales background have helped DeRose become a leading voice in the industry as well as Lincoln Financial’s top female financial planner. 

In this episode, you’ll learn about how Karen uses social media and connections in her quest to become more referable. She has a lot of marketing ideas, and she’s not afraid to share. You will also hear about how her multigenerational family practice has found success working with multigenerational families. And she has some great advice for those of you just starting out in the industry. 

So, grab your coffee, and let’s head into the Practicelab. 

Melissa Phipps: Karen DeRose. Welcome to the PracticeLab podcast.

Karen DeRose: Well, thank you for having me. I am so delighted to be here.

Melissa Phipps: Let's start with a quick snapshot of your practice. Can you tell me a little bit about your business as it stands today?

Karen DeRose: Sure. So I am on an ensemble team of eight people, soon to be 10, by year-end. We are two advisors, three paraplanners and three support staff. We plan on adding another paraplanner in the next couple months, and then a dedicated marketing person, to our practice.

We are a comprehensive planning practice. I only take on clients that will go through our comprehensive planning process.

Melissa Phipps: Can you tell me a little bit about what that looks like?

Karen DeRose: Sure. So, today, we work with all three generations: parents, children and their grandchildren. So if you were to come into our practice, I'm literally going to take you through a fact-finding interview. I will walk you through a sample plan, how we get compensated, the depth and resources of our DeRose FPG team. So it's very comprehensive. It takes us about six months to take a client through our entire process. But it gets trust, and our clients get a lot of value out of it.

Melissa Phipps: I think when we were talking before, you mentioned that you had this, you're like Columbo. Can you tell me a little bit about that when you're working with clients?

Karen DeRose: Oh, sure. So you know, one thing that I've learned is, I always want to go back. So if a client is talking to me about a situation, etc., I'm always thinking. Like, I could be in bed in the middle of the night, and then I will do Columbo and reach back out with either a resource, a name, a strategy or some other thing that they may want to consider. So I'm always, like, trying to just ingratiate, what we do and why planning is so, so important.

Melissa Phipps: You have a truly multigenerational practice. Can you tell me a little bit about how that works? And how does it help distinguish your firm?

Karen DeRose: Sure. So I feel really blessed. So I started in this business with my father. That was 25 years ago. So as, as of January 1, [2021], I hit my 25th anniversary. And I grew up in this business. I'm a family of six kids. I lost my mom when I was seven. We were five kids all under the age of 10. And my father was a life insurance agent with Prudential. He was number one with Prudential for many, many years. And so I kind of grew up in this world, right? Well, then what happened was, I asked my father to join them when I was 32 years old. And he said yes, but I want you to go get proper training. I don't want to train you. So what ended up happening is, I interviewed at seven companies. I ended up at Lincoln Financial. And the reason I was kind of sold to be with Lincoln was, 25 years ago, they were one of the few firms that was really talking about comprehensive planning. They had a planning department, you know? They had people who could mentor me. And my father was so smart, he said, "Karen, you need to learn planning, because clients need advice." And he goes, "You really should go and get your CFP." So I started at Lincoln. My father retired. Three years later, I partnered with another CFP who taught me planning. And then I went on and I got my CFP within three years of being in the business, and I've been doing planning for 22 years out of my 25 years.

Melissa Phipps: Wow. I love that sort of that generational distinction where you’re, you know, sort of taking what your father did and adding this element that seems so you, this planning idea. That's great. And then with your, I know your children have come into the business too, and I'm assuming they may bring something new in a similar way.

Karen DeRose: You know what, it has been so great, working with my two children. You know, I had a fork in the road when I turned 50, which was nine years ago. I either was going to have to stop taking on clients or I was going to have to really grow. And I think the decision was made when my son, Anthony, left his law degree, you know, his law career to come and join me. He said, "I want to work with you, mom." So, I think, my path was not forged yet. I was going to grow the practice.

And then, about five years later, my youngest said, "Mom, I don't think I want to be a doctor. I think I want to be in your business." So I ended up with both of my children. And it's the best thing that has ever happened, because they bring the ability now where I'm working with my father's clients, which are in their 80s and 90s. We're working with their children, which are in their 50s and 60s. And now we're getting the grandchildren which are 30s and 40s. Right? So we have that three generations now. And we're now able to keep it in the family, because one of the biggest things I see is that it's very hard for us planners to understand why and wrap our arms around why we need to be working with the next generation, right? Because they often don't have a lot of money, they don't have a lot of needs. But by having my children in the business, they can relate to them, because they're going through the same things.

Secondly, it allows for our clients to, you know, to feel good that their children are getting planning. Because our clients who normally come to us with our 50s and 60s wish that they would have started with us earlier on right? And now we're able to keep it all in the family and do proper planning. Why is that important? We know what could be transcending down from the grandparents, to the children, to the grandchildren, right? So we recommend proper multigenerational planning. For taxes but even, really, beyond that, it's what if there are issues in the family? We're going to understand all the dynamics of all the planning experience.

Melissa Phipps: Yeah, that's great. I think with generational wealth transfer, it's often not the strategy that goes wrong, but sometimes the communication. And so, I think that is important to really reach out to those multigenerations early on.

Karen DeRose: Yes, I totally agree. And we now have implemented, what I'm going to call a next-gen foundational plan, which is just great. Because they have different objectives than say, someone like myself, who may be retiring, right? So they're more interested in: How do I buy my next home? How do I pay for college? Help me with my stock options and the company benefits. Where should I be putting money? Right? It's just different strategies, even though, at the end of the day, it really is getting them all to the same place. It's just they've got different needs at different times.

Melissa Phipps: And so you call that next-gen? Do you have an actual process for this, these types of clients?

Karen DeRose: You know, what's interesting. So, what we've done is this, we're now reaching out to our clients on their annual review. Once you see that someone is going to be starting, you know, graduating from college can't or getting married, we're trying to get the client to have a conversation with my children and their children to start that ball rolling. Right? So they get accustomed to talking to one advisor. Then, once they get married, we tend to do a foundational plan. And, you know, it's really all the same areas, you know, retirement planning, college fund, etc. It's just the implementation and the focus is different. But yeah, it's working out really, really great. And that's how we're getting our that next generation. We're really focusing on our clients' children. You know, right? I mean, why would we just go out to the marketplace? And we do that, too. I do get clients from our website. But why not keep all the family first and really focus there? I think the message then, too, is you care about the family. Right? I mean who do clients love the most and care about? Their children. They want them to be happy. They want to be financially sound, right? So it's been working really well for us, and clients really love it.

Melissa Phipps: I assume it would also really deepen that engagement and loyalty that you have with your clients, you know, if you're connected in that way with their family and really making their needs a priority.

Karen DeRose: Exactly. And by having my children in the business, and talking about how we're a multigenerational practice, clients love that. Right? Because, you know, they just feel like we're going to just take care of the family.

Melissa Phipps: Yeah. And you said that it also feels like a sort of a built-in succession plan, right? And that people really respond well to that.

Karen DeRose: Oh, yes. You know, the clients love that. They know that if anything happens to me that, that both of my children are in the business. And secondly, they love the fact, too, that I have a team. I think that's the biggest thing today, too. Not only do they have my two children, but I have a team that I've built over 25 years. No one has their own clients in our practice, we are truly an ensemble team. Everybody works on the client, meaning everybody knows everything about the client. We're interchangeable. So if one of my paraplanners, you know, is on vacation, one of my other paraplanners can read the notes, step in and help. And that's why I think I built this as DeRose Financial Planning Group. Clients really like that they've got access to my children and to the paraplanners. And our clients are so well trained that they know who to call. If they need to schedule an appointment, they're calling my niece Katy, who also works in the business. If they need money, or a withdrawal they're calling Nicole. We've really trained our clients well. They rely on Anthony and I for strategy, or if they have a tax question, something that they know is much more higher level, which is just great. You know, and the clients love that they have a team that they can count on.

Melissa Phipps: And I'm sure it's nice for you to be able to delegate some of that other stuff. And also, for the clients to know where to go to get the answers from the right people on your team.

Karen DeRose: Sure, because I think the client feels much more loved. They feel, like, well taken care of, and they feel like they're getting answers without having to go through a few people. Right? I mean, things are just getting done. Right?

Melissa Phipps: That's great. One thing, when we were talking earlier, you seem like you really understood marketing, and I know you have a strong sales background. And I really wanted to talk to you about this because I think this is an area where some advisors aren't as strong or don't feel as confident. One of the things you said that you're constantly asking yourself is: How referable are you? And you ask others how referable are you? Tell me about that question, and how does it drive you and your business?

Karen DeRose: Sure, I love this question, too. So every year, I update my marketing and my business plan. So timing could not be better. I literally looked at where all my business now, our business came from. So I'm going to break it down: 75% of our clients came from our clients.

Melissa Phipps: Referrals.

Karen DeRose: 20% came from social media or website, etc. 5% came from centers of influence or my networking groups. So if 75% of our business is coming from our clients, you have to be saying to yourself, how referable are you then? I must be doing something right. Right, because I'm getting 75% of my business from clients just doing email introductions, or clients or new clients just calling me from clients.

We take this a step further. What I have found is clients hiring us is much higher when they're coming from our clients. Clients on the website are, actually, that's been that closing ratio is about 50%. It's about 90% close when it's a referral, but 50% close from the websites. Centers of influence, I'd say it's about 60%. So what I'm going to say to you is your best referrals are coming from your clients. So it begs the question: How referable are you? What are you doing to make yourself referable? So things that we do in our practice, so of course, you know, we do all, you know, all the normal things. We make sure that they have a good client experience with our planning process. So we have an entire planning process where we probably touch them 10 times before that financial plan is even delivered. OK? So they've had a lot of touch points. We then have a written implementation process. We then have an action item follow-up process, to make sure that even though they've done the planning, we now want to make sure that everything gets done. So that first year, the client is probably touched 20 times.

Melissa Phipps: Wow.

Karen DeRose: Then we have the second year. We are, we are now doing the annual review. We have a great agenda that kind of breaks it down into different areas. But we're always being proactive and trying to bring new ideas into the annual meeting. Keeping them on top of the tax laws. Keeping them up on any... you know this year, how many acts do we have? The SECURE Act, CARES Act, COVID act, right? So we're trying to keep everything really relevant and how it applies to them. So we do a lot of that. We do, you know, client webinars on the markets. On just things that are important. You know, a big thing right now? We're about to send an email out. What is happening right now for most of our clients? They're getting letters in the mail that someone filed for unemployment under [their name]. We're going to be sending out an email today about what they need to do if that happens. There's a whole process you have to follow. So you know, what we're really trying to be proactive. And clients love that.

Melissa Phipps: That's great. You sort of evolve your services according to their needs, and really find out that next, you know, what else? That 'what else' question, I love that. 

Karen DeRose: Yes, I would agree, and being proactive, I think, before things happen. Other things we've done are articles, you know, we sent out something on Bitcoin, right? I mean, when everyone wanted to jump on that bandwagon a few years ago. We just make sure that we're putting newsworthy information out before they keep asking us. Right? I think that also ingratiates you. Also, the other thing I do really well within our team? I am a resource. I asked a lot of questions. Example: A client is telling me that they're going to be moving to Arizona. I'm going to say to them, "Look, you're going to need to redo your estate planning, here's why. Do you need a realtor? Are you going to need a mortgage broker?” I have a lot of resources. So I'm trying to preempt all the people that they may need, once they move.

I'm really blessed in this respect: Because we're so big, we're a national firm, I've got colleagues across the country that I can often get good names. And so they don't have to do with a lot of the hunting, which again ingratiates me and our team, because I'm thinking about that. I'm always asking questions. I refer business two to three times a day. That's the other reason why centers of influence enjoy working with me, because I'm constantly referring business. Because I'm trying to help the client, so they don't have to keep trying to vet out other people that really may not have the expertise. So most of my network are going to be people that I know I can trust, that I know are going to do good work, and it doesn't have to be repeated. 

Melissa Phipps: I know that centers of influence are important to you, and you say you're constantly making connections and making referrals. And I think that you've, you've been very deliberate about that and sort of built that with your practice over time. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Karen DeRose: Sure. Yes, and this is great. One thing that I still do to this day, you know, it's kind of funny. When I first got in the business, I was in six networking groups. How crazy is that? Six networking groups! I mean, I'm telling you, it was really insanity. And I'll tell you what I learned. I have now narrowed it down to two. I'm still in two to this day. But the reason I really stay in them is I want to understand about a lot of industries. So when I'm talking to clients, I'm knowledgeable, I understand what they're going through by being in these networking groups.

I'm in one that I meet with every Wednesday morning. There's about 25 people in it, and we have an agenda. There are 10-minute speakers. It's really, really great. I learn a lot about a lot of industries. And that's where a lot of my referrals go to is people in that group.

And then I have another group that's all business owners. So I get to hear a lot from what's going on in the business owner mindset, you know, in hearing them. I just love to be knowledgeable. I just feel like knowledge is power? 

Melissa Phipps: Yeah.

Karen DeRose: So by being able to go and do that, and refer? It saves my clients’ time, saves them heartache, and I know that they're going to be with really good people that can help solve their problems.

Melissa Phipps: OK, so let’s recap what we’ve heard so far. Karen talked about how her firm’s comprehensive planning process is a bit like Columbo, always coming back with more ideas or looking for more information. She’s just as relentless when asking herself the all-important question, “How referable are you?” She talked about how bringing her two sons into the business has been the best decision she could have made, allowing the practice to truly serve many generations – from her father’s clients in their 70s and older, to her clients in their 50s and 60s, to new clients in their 30s and 40s who can relate firm’s young and driven staff.

Next, we talk about her great success with social media marketing, using financial content and press mentions to boost her digital presence and Google search ranking. And did she really say that 20% of new business was coming from social media and digital marketing?

Karen DeRose: So, again, 75% is from clients, and 20% is from social media. So years ago, before social media, websites, everything was popular, I jumped on that bandwagon really, really early. I listened to, you know, a lot of people speak about what is the right way to market and do social media. I've won a lot of awards over the years, and people just do a lot of social media for me. So it's made it really easy for me. Because if you Google "best financial planner in Chicago," I'll normally come up. And it's funny, because I've spent a lot of time writing articles, changing my content. On my website, you know, people post. I just get a lot of traffic, which raises you up. And changing content really helps today.

But I will tell you this: I am in the process of rebranding. I'm going to be doing a big refresh. And I'm trying to institute all the new things that you now should be doing, like doing videos and, you know, other things that we're going to start incorporating. Hence, why I'm hiring a marketing strategist now and a marketing person full time. Because what I realized is, we just don't have the time to be dedicated to that really great client experience. So our new marketing person is going to be client experience and marketing. But I'm going to hire a strategist first. Because I need to first understand what do we need to do, and then I need someone, on a daily basis, implementing everything out and really creating a better client experience. I'm not so happy with our client experience just yet. I know it sounds like I am, how referable are you? I want my clients to be our marketing team. I don't want to be that marketing team. I want them to be doing it for us. Because they're really our best raving fans, right? Our clients.

Melissa Phipps: That's interesting. How can you kind of put them to work for you? I think social media really lends itself to that, as you said, if you're creating enough stuff and kind of being a shareable presence out there. I think that's great. One of the things I noticed just sort of looking at your website and some of your communications. You do a really good job of having, sort of, a brand identity for your firm, and extending that into your email, you know, into your website and digital presence. I think you're doing a lot of... really leaning into a lot of those, sort of, best practices that we talk about. So that's great, especially with branding, I thought. Is that something that you do deliberately?

Karen DeRose: Yes, and, you know, I have a marketing degree and an accounting degree. So, hence, marketing is fun for me. But I'm always, like, I'm like a visionary and seeing where the future is headed. I see it as multigenerational, and that's how we are going to be branding going forward, but in a more modern way. I just feel like our website is a little dated. I want to bring it more up to, you know, modern? You know, just what's on everybody's minds.

There's also a lot today that we don't even really think about, like these modern blended families, right? There's a lot of that going on. So I want to make sure our messaging is really capturing all of that.

I'm always ahead of the curve, I have in my whole career, like this ensemble team. Now there's teaming, right? There never used to be. Planning. Now everybody wants to be a CFP and do planning, right? I've been doing it 23 years. So I'm always trying to just get ahead of things. And, you know, that's why marketing has been really, really important to me. And I'll share another thing I'm doing too. Since we're onto marketing, I've spent the last year listening to marketing podcasts. I'm on a marketing committee in our firm, listening to what everybody's doing. And what I felt like, what was happening is, everybody's doing pieces of it. I want a marketing strategy and plan now. Now that I've heard what everybody's doing, I'm going to put it together and take the best of what I've heard out there, and try to have a real strategy now. And hire someone who can really help me put it together, and then implement it.

The other thing I'm doing that I think is extremely important, I want to talk about team. There is no “I” in team, right? Let's spell team: T E A M, right? I've learned something over the years: Your team is your biggest asset. And I've also spent time this past year investing in practice management. We've had an assessment done. We're redoing our incentive compensation plans. We are redoing, we're going to have career tracks, now. We're involving the team in a lot of our decision-making. You know, culture really matters. And hiring, turnover is so costly. So I'm doing everything I can to create a really great client experience, to challenge our teams. To, you know, ingratiate myself with them, mentor them. I've taken a really different role here. I've learned, again, there's no “I” in team. That I want a happy team, a happy culture. And I'm really focusing. Those are like my two big things this year: really making sure that I have a good client culture and a good team, and really good marketing strategy and brand out there, to take our group to the next level now.

We need to be ready. We also need to be ready to embrace all the technology out there, and Zoom. Zoom is not going away. So we all need to look better on Zoom. We need to have cameras on Zoom. We need to really think about how we look on Zoom, what our backgrounds will look like. What are, you know, I'm really into all of that, because Zoom isn't going away, and we're now going to all be national. We're now going to be able to reach that client in Wyoming. You know? Boundaries don't matter anymore now, because now you have Zoom. You know?

Melissa Phipps: Right. I mean, you could expand your practice nationwide, if you really wanted to at this point.

Karen DeRose: You sure can. And having national resources matter, too. So, you know, the beautiful thing about where I'm affiliated with, I've got that TRG [The Resource Group] group where I'm part of the top 200 in the company. We share resources, attorneys, CPAs, across the country. You're going to need that. You're going to need a national presence with national resources now.

So I feel really good about what we built, developed and really continue to strive for. I'm lucky that I am with a firm that I've got colleagues that I can share with. Yeah, like I said, boundaries are now are now going to be open. Because, you know, I do planning right now in 29 states and have for a lot of my career. So this whole Zoom thing is not, is not new for me, but I am really looking at how do we look on Zoom?

Melissa Phipps: You know, you said something that really caught my attention. You said that "I'm not running a practice anymore. I'm running a business." And I feel like a lot that you've spoken about today really fits in with that—that you're really having that, sort of, business enterprise thinking. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Karen DeRose: Sure. You know, one thing I did this year, which just occurred for me, I‘m now incorporated. Yay! Which is, you know, exciting right? And, you know, I had to do it for several reasons. But, you know, I tell you, it felt really good to go, to go, and do that. And it's making me look at every aspect of why and how am I structured.

You know, I have a bookkeeper. Why am I doing bookkeeping when a bookkeeper is supposed to be $150 a month, right? I love it. I love getting my P&L. I love that. You know? I love seeing how I have grown over the years and metrics, etc. And everyone: You need to track your metrics. You need to track how your business has grown, where your business is coming from. You know, a real business plan.

Secondly, the other thing is what I spoke about earlier: team. You need to run this business with good compensation plans, good career tracks. I also, now I'm outsourcing my hiring. I no longer do my own hiring, I now have engaged people that can do the hiring for me. Because I'm reading a wonderful book right now, share the book I'm reading, it's "Who Not How." It's a Dan Sullivan book. What it basically says is: Who can help you get things done? OK? We are spending way too much time on things that are costing us time and money and energy. Hire the experts. That's why my clients hire us, right? So that is that is something that I would encourage everyone to do.

The other thing that I would say to you is: Do a practice assessment of your team. Hire someone to look at the roles and responsibilities. And what I found by doing that, if you can put people in the right roles, they will thrive. They will thrive. When they're not doing what they don't love, they will then not do some of the work that should be getting done. I did it two years ago—what a difference it's made. And I'm doing it again right now as we speak. And I'm so excited about it, and so is my team.

We also did a team survey that was more cultural thing. What was important to them? Oh my god, it was amazing. It was amazing to see what the team wanted. Like, they really wanted to be challenged and receive praise, more than getting, you know, you know a dinner. So that's fascinating to me. And we're going to be sharing that with the team in this next month. So the point I'm trying to make is: Run your practice like a business. You should be incorporated. You should have career tracks. You should have incentive comp plans. You know, you should pay your people well. Give them a good 401(k) profit sharing plan. My gosh, I've had team members for 20 years. I give up some of my pay so my team is well taken care of. And then, when they're, when they're taken care of, they love your clients. They go out of their way for their clients. They do Colombos. You know?

And let me share a couple things with you that you will absolutely love. So, we have words that we live by. Let me tell you our words. These are really funny. The DeRose FPG words: eat the frog. There's a little frog that sits on all of our desks. Every day, the first thing that we have to do is eat the frog. Do the one thing that we don't want to do first, and we knock it out.

The second thing that we all have is the three-minute rule. If it takes you more than three minutes to figure it out, you need to make a phone call or look it up on Google. OK?

The other thing is: Do a Columbo. If you know that maybe there's something that you remember a client asking you or you didn't fully, like, respond well to the client, go to a Colombo and circle back.

The other thing is: We live by Jon Picoult's 12 rules to ingratiate clients. There's a whole 12-step program that has what you're supposed to do. Everybody should look him up. He's like the master in creating client experience.

Melissa Phipps: That's great. Um, so finally, I wanted to ask you, what advice would you give to advisors who are just starting out in the industry today?

Karen DeRose: Oh, this is probably my favorite question of all. And I have thought about this year over year. So I'm going to give you kind of my hit list:

First and foremost, don't go solo. Become part of a team. That should be not hard today with the average financial planner aged 56. And by the way, I just heard that the new advisors joining are 10% of under the age of 35 that are doing planning. Wow. There's such an opportunity for this industry and for this next generation to come into this business. I can't even tell you.

Secondly, learn from the bottom up, meaning become a paraplanner first. Only do comprehensive planning. Don't become a commodity by just doing insurance or investments. Do and embrace comprehensive financial planning. People want to pay for advice, and charge a fee to do a plan.

The other thing is you must become a CFP. I am the gold standard today. I am a fiduciary. People want a CFP. I tell clients, "I'm the PhD." But don't just become one and have those initials. Really own it, practice it and really become a student of the business.

Mentor, coach. In my career I cannot tell you how many mentors I've had. I cannot tell you how many coaching programs I have been in. I totally believe in strategic coaching. And I believe in mentors, because now I am a mentor. And that is my new role. And that is my new impact is mentoring. And it's my favorite role of all. I love mentoring my children, my team. It's what I'm thriving and living for right now. I really enjoy it.

Align yourself with it, with a study group of peers in your industry to hold you accountable. Either do a study group within your organization of other advisors, or do what some other planners do, which is do a study group with outside advisors from all different industries. My son, Anthony, is in G2, which is Philip Palaveev, who wrote "The Ensemble Team." I have put him in this program. Now he's in his second year. It is for the next generation of planners, and it's multiple firms across the country, learning how to run a pseudo financial planning practice. Because we have to remember something, our children, you know, and teams right now, our practices are built. No one has trained us how to run a business. We've all had to do it by default. I'm so proud of this, that Philip Palaveev has seen it. And he has now created this program called G2. Every single firm that has teams should be putting their next generation through this. It's not expensive, and it's the best training the kids, these next-gens, are going to get. My son is in the second year of it.

The other thing I've learned is: Hire early, never late. What did you hear me saying in the beginning? I'm hiring two people? Do I need them right now? You know, do I have a full-time need? It'll become full time. Because there's, I'm going to realize so much that I'm not doing that I could be doing. So hire early and never late. And one other comment I am going to make that I have learned is: Put your hirees through some testing. Meaning whether it's a strength finder, whether it's a Kolbe, have them write a letter, have them do whatever is pertinent to that [job]. If they're going to be doing marketing, have them write a press release. Get to see their skills before you hire them. Then have them shadow your firm before you hire them. I have really learned that, because then you're going to know.

And I'm also into two other things that I'll share with you: critically thinking. I want to know that they can critically think and that they have emotional intelligence. Very important to me today, because I'm Type A, I'm more of a reactor. But I really have been practicing emotional intelligence, to really calm myself down before I react to things. It's really helping me. It's really helping me.

And then the last thing is: Have a CEO mindset. Think like a CEO. You are the CEO of your business.

Melissa Phipps: Yeah.

Karen DeRose: Think about all the things that you need to hire out. Take care of your team. Remember what I said in the beginning: There's no “I” in team. Your team is your greatest asset. You're only as good as your team.

Melissa Phipps: That's great. Well, thank you so much, Karen, for joining us today in the PracticeLab. This has been really great, and it's a pleasure talking to you.

Karen DeRose: Oh my gosh, I've thoroughly enjoyed this.

Melissa Phipps: OK that’s it for this episode of the PracticeLab podcast. I want to thank my guest, Karen DeRose, for joining me. Thanks also to Joe Cronin at Capital Group for bringing Karen to our attention.

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